Gambits

[Oberon]

So over the year's I've been the facilitator of many different styles of gambits. Long story short, most of the gambits I've tried have worked out for me, and my reads. However the way other players seem to interpret the gambits, make them kind of pointless. A lot of times even with good explanations as to who, what, where, when, and why players don't want to see where you're coming from they see "gambit" and associate it with deception, and most players associate deception with scum. Also as Oberon did mention, I'd say roughly 85% of players I've played with don't want to be persuaded by anyone else and if it doesn't align with what they themselves are thinking than the argument will be regarded as moot.

Now if done right and a good explanation is given as to why you performed the gambit and what you got out of it is key if you are going to do it. I would say involving other players like hard claiming fake claiming a red check on someone, or hard claiming a role you are not as town seldom work, and are selfish plays, that should be avoided imho. Now softing a check or something similar like that if done correctly can be pretty good to test reactions and such, but it should be brought to light later on that day with explanations.

So there was once a game where I pulled a sort of gambit where I acted like I had some more information then some other players. The setup was hidden, so I had a little wiggle room here. I basically gauged everyone's reactions to what I was saying and how everyone interacted with me. I was able to find the general town reactions and tones along with the shady scummier reactions and tones. Then you compare and contrast peoples metas and boom! I then came clean with what I did and why I did it, and my conclusions from doing it. I had a POE of all the town members and the 4 Scum in the Lynch POE. This was Day 1. Long story short nobody really agreed with my reads, ended up lynching elsewhere after I perished, left mechanically confirmed Mafia alive, and ended up losing the game.

All in all pulling gambits from my experience in the trenches end's up with town losing more often than winning.

I was in that game you just mentioned. I was doctor and died healing you on n1

[OzyWho]

I was in that game you just mentioned. I was doctor and died healing you on n1

Sounds more like a bodyguard tbh..

[OzyWho]

Or is everyone trying to throw you under a bus like I do?

^
The only gambit that I do btw. But it's more because not doing it feels more like a gambit than doing it.. go figure. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Oberon]

Sounds more like a bodyguard tbh..

I got nightkilled on n1. I thought of healing myself. Tbh glad I didn't do it. Town was playing extremely poorly and I would've hated being alive after d1.

[Oberon]

JESTER GMAMBIT, LOL!!!

Yeah the gambit blink just described is basically a jester gambit. He told us all that he had to be the dude with the highest number of votes at EoD or else some unspecified horiffic nightmare would occur.

[bakermir]

What is your FM experience btw?

Started last summer with SuperJack and Auwt introducing me to it and coached by Varcron. I did play sc2mod in WoL more than a decade ago and similar games IRL so there is that ;p

I find it strange how SC2Mafia players fake claim so casually, yet they rarely give cop cover as let's say MU do.

Similarly, in Season 2 of Mafia Championship, players from all the smaller communities had to be taught to give cop cover by fake claiming.

For example, in this game, SC2Mafia play a classical Cop 9'et setup - but they don't cover the cop even though the host put that strategy out there. Yet we have no problem claiming random shit in other games.


I'm surprised you carried Town against a scum Martin. Can you give the link (it wouldn't be hard to find it myself though, if it's a bother)? I would love to read that final MyLo day.

I wouldn't say carried lol but my reads and PoE were influential enough to lead town into consensus and box the scum. We had multiple fake claimers so it was interesting imo. I will DM you the link to MyLo in discord.

I also agree that the whole fakeclaiming is done on Day 1 to create cover for actual PR's and I am glad you noticed what I mean with site meta. I haven't seen it being done much here while it is quite common offsite.

Sounds bad. Are they even scumhunting?
Like a cool inconsistency catch would be: "Your last given read on them was townread. You say you're suspicious of them since post x, but looking at your ISO I can't find any evidence of that because you've only shown a confidence in them being town. Can you show a post where your doubt on them was reflected in any of your posts?" - if people don't care about other people's PoV, how do they scumhunt?
(I feel like I should know the answer myself)



We should start introducing policy lynches against chaos makers so that, in time, people start to play the game properly.

I do think that Chaos isn't good for town and they shouldn't condone it.



I bus Oberon every game. Just can't get that lynch on him, dude is holding his own way too efficiently.

Ftr, I don't think Town has anyone to blame but themselves when multiple games in a row D1 ends with barely 200 posts and 0 info.

I totally agree with you. D1's on this site is so weak, have we ever lynched scum on D1 here? I bet some of you did years ago but did it happen lately? I can't remember. Little amount of posts, almost no scumhunting have been the trend lately here.

Does it mean we have good scum players? Do we allow scum players have more freedom? A lot of stuff to think about..

[MartinGG99]

(Off-topic from the OP)

I totally agree with you. D1's on this site is so weak, have we ever lynched scum on D1 here? I bet some of you did years ago but did it happen lately? I can't remember. Little amount of posts, almost no scumhunting have been the trend lately here.

Does it mean we have good scum players? Do we allow scum players have more freedom? A lot of stuff to think about..

I've actually heard from some players on other FM communities that I am in that D1 scum lynches (though I haven't checked the stats, nor do I have enough experience to tell) have had leaned towards historically bad games / scum wins. This is because 1st impressions from D1 can be or are very important and if the setup is not made to last like 5+ day phases or more at minimum then a D1 scum lynch can cause people to make mistakes; especially if they misread a bus as a townie push onto scum or a townie push on D1 as just simply misdirection even though a lot of people are generally wrong to some degree on D1.

This isn't generally the reason why I will D1 bus sometimes, though.

[Oberon]

Started last summer with SuperJack and Auwt introducing me to it and coached by Varcron. I did play sc2mod in WoL more than a decade ago and similar games IRL so there is that ;p



I wouldn't say carried lol but my reads and PoE were influential enough to lead town into consensus and box the scum. We had multiple fake claimers so it was interesting imo. I will DM you the link to MyLo in discord.

I also agree that the whole fakeclaiming is done on Day 1 to create cover for actual PR's and I am glad you noticed what I mean with site meta. I haven't seen it being done much here while it is quite common offsite.




I totally agree with you. D1's on this site is so weak, have we ever lynched scum on D1 here? I bet some of you did years ago but did it happen lately? I can't remember. Little amount of posts, almost no scumhunting have been the trend lately here.

Does it mean we have good scum players? Do we allow scum players have more freedom? A lot of stuff to think about..

the meta on sc2mafia has changed, and not in a good way tbh. wall posts for example were a big thing ~3 years ago and ppl would push others for reads. nowadays we just sit back and say "umm this post is scummy because... x and y"

[Oberon]

(Off-topic from the OP)



I've actually heard from some players on other FM communities that I am in that D1 scum lynches (though I haven't checked the stats, nor do I have enough experience to tell) have had leaned towards historically bad games / scum wins. This is because 1st impressions from D1 can be or are very important and if the setup is not made to last like 5+ day phases or more at minimum then a D1 scum lynch can cause people to make mistakes; especially if they misread a bus as a townie push onto scum or a townie push on D1 as just simply misdirection even though a lot of people are generally wrong to some degree on D1.

This isn't generally the reason why I will D1 bus sometimes, though.

Funnily, I think this was not the case when I first started playing. I wonder why that is.
When I first started playing - usually if a scum got lynched on D1, Town would end up winning the game; and when scum won games, usually Town would fail to lynch even a single scum.

[Voss]

it's why i try to push the game onto spammers. talk too much? you're making it harder for town players to know what's going on. people think this stream of consciousness makes them look like town. it doesn't. it's anti-town.

[Lumi]

it's why i try to push the game onto spammers. talk too much? you're making it harder for town players to know what's going on. people think this stream of consciousness makes them look like town. it doesn't. it's anti-town.

I've heard the opposite

mafia like posting wall posts with their reads

[Unknown1234]

I think the problem i see in most games I see town getting Lynched for two different reasons. The first being that they are a low posting/shitposting player that the game does not want to deal with and they opt for a ‘low hanging fruit’ lynch. The second reason being that they try a bait attempt that backfires horribly and people can’t distinguish the difference between intention and objectively looking bad for trying it (I never would have Lynched you in that one game Mag if I was town )

I end up getting scum roles way more often than town roles, but for me I try to think of a role that I’m going to fake claim (if required) at the start of the game and play that way accordingly. I think most town players will come up with something last minute in order to try to win the game themselves without seriously thinking it through. That’s not to say that it looks Scummy, but most people will lynch out of frustration vs pure reads.

The site has always had shit posting as far back as I can remember. I would argue the reason it lives is because people are less likely to lynch people they are friends with and thus do not care to put in effort. I could be off base with this. I have talked a lot about my personal feelings towards Meta reading which is somewhat similar but I think our playerbase gives a lot more leeway to shit posters than it did in the past (Gyrlanders post in my signature gets a lot of hate from people who used to hunt LHF in the past).

[Oberon]

IMO gambits aren't as bad as they're made out to be, altho I probs won't be pulling any more gambits anytime soon (except maybe if I breadcrumb them and if they're not completely batshit insane).

[ZZorange]

I've been playing a lot of Blackmar-Diemer right now and of course the odd Englund because it's an autowin sometimes. What are yalls fav gambits?

[Lumi]

I've been playing a lot of Blackmar-Diemer right now and of course the odd Englund because it's an autowin sometimes. What are yalls fav gambits?

The only gambit I play is the Queen's Gambit. That fact probably says a lot about my style of play - applicable to mafia as well.

[OzyWho]

The only gambit I play is the Queen's Gambit. That fact probably says a lot about my style of play - applicable to mafia as well.

No Danish no Kings no Latvian? Not even Evan's?

[Lumi]

No Danish no Kings no Latvian? Not even Evan's?

Those all involve 1. e4 e5 lines, which I do not play at all

[OzyWho]

Those all involve 1. e4 e5 lines, which I do not play at all

[Lumi]

Why play openings that everyone knows when I could play an opening my opponent is less familiar with while I'm in my comfort zone? :P

[OzyWho]

Why play openings that everyone knows when I could play an opening my opponent is less familiar with while I'm in my comfort zone? :P

Idk man. I feel like you need to be pretty high ranking for opening to matter. Even Magnus in those online blitz/bullet events plays the worst openings against other GM's and still wins. He reasons that just because he makes a few very bad moves in the opening doesn't mean he can't play good the rest.

Also I think a win feels better when you play something that is unorthodox for yourself while such a loss can be laughed off.

[yzb25]

Those all involve 1. e4 e5 lines, which I do not play at all

based