S-FM 317: Eternia [LADDER]

[Oberon]

Oh, I can also say if I like the people I am playing with I go out of my way to kill for entertainment. Like take out the toxic / lurking people first to keep the game intense and fun. I think I enjoy the fight more than the win.

+1

[Oberon]

Now I know you are my fellow lost wolf. Lets go lynch some townies!

If this turns out to be openwolfing I will laugh.

[Oberon]

Not sure disregarding the Mike-Helz interaction is fair if you're giving a read on Mike: it's pretty much the most solid thing that has happened this game lol.

And before you say you "don't do reads D1", remember that you just gave a read .

are we gonna see Mesk and youse flip scum at EoD? god that would be cruel on Auwts part 😂

[Mesk514]

are we gonna see Mesk and youse flip scum at EoD? god that would be cruel on Auwts part 😂

I would have subbed out or throw the game in my first post. THEN HE COULD HAVE BANNED ME FOR SOMETHING LEGIT

[Oberon]

-vote Mesk514

[Oberon]

Why is Frinckles being trained?
Also, I think Matt is town.

[Mesk514]

-vote Mesk514

🤷*♀️ how adorable

[Oberon]

路*♀️ how adorable

Thanks, I try my best.

[Oberon]

I look at Helz’s trollin at the start of the day and I think its NAI, but keep in mind that Helzs post to MZ could be him scumpainting MZ by calling him his wolf and making it seem like they’re scum together. I have had Scum do this to me before and it always makes me paranoid.

[Oberon]

Question for ya

How do you feel about him using some form of wagonomics less than 100 posts into D1? Is this his normal sort of play?

Yes.

[Oberon]

Nobody hammers me here

-vote Frinckles

[Oberon]

@Mesk514 , @MattZed how well do you know Helz? Would he jokingly call someone his scum partner at the start if the day as scum?

[Mesk514]

@Mesk514 , @MattZed how well do you know Helz? Would he jokingly call someone his scum partner at the start if the day as scum?

I'm not saying he's doing that here but I wouldn't put anyting past Helz.

[Mesk514]

I have spent countless hours wasted with Helz upping the pot on online poker until it's just he and I left for one of us to fold. So I would say pretty damn well.

[FrostByte]

I have spent countless hours wasted with Helz upping the pot on online poker until it's just he and I left for one of us to fold. So I would say pretty damn well.

That actually sounds like a lot of fun. We should all play some time.

[FrostByte]

I'm not saying he's doing that here but I wouldn't put anyting past Helz.

You know him a lot better than I do but this is the vibe I got from him last game. Cheeky fucker.

[Mesk514]

That actually sounds like a lot of fun. We should all play some time.

Christmas time is near!

[FrostByte]

Christmas time is near!

Yes! Hit me up on Discord when you guys are available.

[Mesk514]

Yes! Hit me up on Discord when you guys are available.

these are skype only gatherings.

[FrostByte]

these are skype only gatherings.

that works too

[Auwt]

@Auwt , I see @Stealthbomber16 commenting on the setup thread. Please clarify if his interpretations or your initial ones will be dictating this game.

I will follow what the setup creator intended, so no, the Senator wouldn't be able to ask for a no lynch.
Other than that, SB16 agreed with my interpretations, so nothing new but this.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

yes, further down the line it could be used as a supporting argument for me to justify why I believe Mike has things that indicate him to be scum, but for now it's just an observation, as honestly, and quite truthfully, there is nothing that has happened here that really means anything to me.

Fair. I disagree with the re-- observation because it ignores an important part of his play (which makes "not contributing and just fluffy" a false statement), but not basing anything on it is not too bad, I guess.

Yes, I consider alternative RVS and RVS game stages less than the game. I personally favor alternative RVS because it allows for everyone to become familiar with the setup and consider what scum hunting tells and techniques to favor as well as how to handle different situations in advance. In comparison random voting also builds to player analysis after people start pushing reasoning and removing the random part but it does not accomplish anything else (unless your playing a more 'normal' version of the game where peeks are sheltered.

Breaking RVS should always be the goal of any town and it should be even more of a focus this game considering we are forced to do a D1 lynch (in my opinion.)

I double-checked, and you did somewhat go out of RVS by giving tiny reads on Oberon and myself, and later on in your conversation with Mike.

~~

Helz is just not tempting to lynch. I wouldn't even say this stems from pure charisma (like how it is for some "stars" on some sites, who shitpost a lot, are funny, and just get to endgame without much effort if they're not watched), but rather from logic and stability. And well, everything he says makes perfect logical sense. There's the fact he went from normal RVS to "alternative RVS" instead of straight up trying to come out of it himself while thinking town should be trying to drive us out of RVS, though, which bothers me a bit.

It's this sort of behavior I'm torn on. You're trying to guard against the random voting phase consuming all of D1, but you aren't pressuring others to act in the same spirit. Why not, say, vote Mesk to encourage her to share more about how she plans to scumhunt?

I can buy Helz's answer that he does not believe in D1 pressure too much. The only disturbing thing is that he was, as far as I know, not striving to drive town out of RVS on page 1 (50 posts/page), but rather striving to launch a phase of "alternative RVS". Granted it did not last long, though.

Conclusion: Helz looks good, but the voice of paranoia tells me not to townread him too quickly. Since it's the voice of paranoia more than the voice of pure reason, I have a mild townread on him, but people shouldn't put too much instantaneous faith in him.
And to be fair, he's the one who posted the most content (and the most structured content) thus far, which means there are more possibilities of making genuine, small mistakes in logic. So I'm hopping out of my tunnel here lol. Thanks for coming to my wall talk

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Okay, I've just about solved the game.

Me+Helz+Mike+Mesk+MM are all town. There are at least two scum in Dark Magician+FrostByte+Oberon+Frinckles. Unless there's a Senator out there, we just yeet the 4 of them and win.
@MartinGG99 , is this what you felt like last game when you ended up townreading everyone you interacted with D1?

I feel good with this D1 PoE, and am taking it as what it is: a D1 PoE, nothing ultimate or absolute. I'm less sure about Mesk because using meta to read someone who has literally not been scum recently is dangerous and because pure meta reads are dangerous too, but lynching her D1 probably wouldn't be a great idea either. Also, Helz's point about Oberon calling someone (I think Frinckles) out on PR hunting for saying Mesk is citizen is good, so he gets slightly above the other people in the PoE.
The other reprobates can all burn in the lake of fire as far as I'm concerned

[Mike]

-unvote

Playing with Mag from past games his responses to my question. And his bait fake vote on Frinkles make me town lean him. Unless Frinkles is his partner. Can anyone help me evaluate if Oberon and freckles can be a world?

Mag loves to leave what he thinks is bait. Tends to get him lynched a lot as town.

I am going to step back because, what is bothering me is I am hard town reading helz. Day 1 and every time I give someone a hard town read day 1 I get screwed becise they end up flipping mafia. And I look mike a moron.

MM tend to get a good Laff.

A lot of strong players in here. I was excited at first becuse thought this going to be an easy town win. But now I am seeing strong players can appear townie. I have no idea who I want to lynch today now.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Question for ya

How do you feel about him using some form of wagonomics less than 100 posts into D1? Is this his normal sort of play?

It is. He doesn't usually stop at such things.

He said "Oberon at L3 and no one jumping on that is sus also he is voting SB16."
I read that as
"Oberon at L3 and no one jumping on that is sus"
and
"also he is voting SB16"

I see really nothing AI in there for or against Oberon, but neither do I about Mike. It's a shout in the void.

[Oberon]

-unvote

Playing with Mag from past games his responses to my question. And his bait fake vote on Frinkles make me town lean him. Unless Frinkles is his partner. Can anyone help me evaluate if Oberon and freckles can be a world?

Mag loves to leave what he thinks is bait. Tends to get him lynched a lot as town.

I am going to step back because, what is bothering me is I am hard town reading helz. Day 1 and every time I give someone a hard town read day 1 I get screwed becise they end up flipping mafia. And I look mike a moron.

MM tend to get a good Laff.

A lot of strong players in here. I was excited at first becuse thought this going to be an easy town win. But now I am seeing strong players can appear townie. I have no idea who I want to lynch today now.

Yes, I do a lot of bait. Last game I tried to claim 3rd party scum to draw the real 3rd party out and I got lynched

[Oberon]

It is. He doesn't usually stop at such things.


I see really nothing AI in there for or against Oberon, but neither do I about Mike. It's a shout in the void.

I wish this was a hidden setup so I could claim some weird made up role

[Marshmallow Marshall]

By your *memory*?!

For the love of all that is holy, YOU CAN SEE HOW MANY POSTS EVERYONE MADE.

Now I'm getting last game flashbacks...

This seems fake. Or rather, it seems to be a post from MafiaScum lol. Strange (obviously not basing anything on that outside of a strange weak gutread)

Gut reads he asked for. That is why I make it clear they where leans not reads. And with you MM I have learned to insta put you in my scum lean. Every time I give you a hard town read you flip scum. I dont really know if you are neutral mafia or town. You are going to be a hard find if you are town I will say that.

Ok, there's nothing more to it, then. And you're probably the only player on this site who fears my scumgame...

[Oberon]

-vote Helz

with intent to lynch.
top scumread and top townread from everyone, NOW.

[FrostByte]

Yes, I do a lot of bait. Last game I tried to claim 3rd party scum to draw the real 3rd party out and I got lynched

Did you honestly think switcher was gonna CC you? Why would that ever happen?

[Oberon]

Did you honestly think switcher was gonna CC you? Why would that ever happen?

No, I was expecting the switcher to react in some manner at me claiming switcher, in retrospect they did react but I wasnt smart enough to see it

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I wish this was a hidden setup so I could claim some weird made up role

We need more hidden setups!

-vote Helz

with intent to lynch.
top scumread and top townread from everyone, NOW.

hands up
Top townread: Mike (already stated the helz-mike interaction, and he just generally fits his town self)
Top scumread: Eeeeeeeeeeeehhhh, Frinckles the inactive? Really, I don't have a strong scumread, we have a bunch of strong players in this game and they've been the ones talking the most, so I have proto-scumreads instead of actual scumreads.

Now explain your read on Helz, heathen.

[MattZed]

My gut reaction is that this type of shit makes you town but you're good at controlling perception so this type of shit only means you want to be viewed as town. Regardless, this is helpful and we should pay attention to last wills. Could also be you coaching fellow scum and pointing them in the direction you think is right. You do this as scum, after all.

@Helz , what do you think of what FrostByte said here? He's insinuating your holy advice to keep an updated LW could somehow be coaching to scum, but I'm really not seeing any universe where that could be the case. (mafia aren't going to die to assassination)

[MattZed]

See this is something I never got. If you scumread me its not on me to ‘make my case’. I find defending myself an incredibly boring and arguably useless play. People rarely chabge their mind anyways. I have had more success defending myself as Scum than as town...

I don’t even understand how I’m supposed to defend against ‘he is at L-3 and nobody is getting on’. As far as anyone is concerned I am either scum and Mafia arent jumping in, or I’m town and my train just has more traction. There is literally nothing I can say to persuade the people on my train.

You're missing the case Mike is making: He started scumreading you because you opted out of random voting. The wagonomics is something he considered later, and even Mike was publicly questioning it.

If you're town, explain why you didn't vote for someone actually in the game.

[MattZed]

@Mesk514 , @MattZed how well do you know Helz? Would he jokingly call someone his scum partner at the start if the day as scum?

He very well could. I'd call it NAI, though. ;)

[MattZed]

He very well could. I'd call it NAI, though. ;)

To give a more serious response to @Oberon , I don't think he's trying to scumpaint me with his opening fluff. He's already acknowledged I shouldn't be the D1 yeet, so he's not trying to get rid of me. The only other reason to scumpaint would be to incriminate me after *he* gets yeeted, but I don't think Helz is at any risk of getting yeeted soon, so there would be no point.

[MattZed]

-unvote

Playing with Mag from past games his responses to my question. And his bait fake vote on Frinkles make me town lean him. Unless Frinkles is his partner. Can anyone help me evaluate if Oberon and freckles can be a world?

Mag loves to leave what he thinks is bait. Tends to get him lynched a lot as town.

I am going to step back because, what is bothering me is I am hard town reading helz. Day 1 and every time I give someone a hard town read day 1 I get screwed becise they end up flipping mafia. And I look mike a moron.

MM tend to get a good Laff.

A lot of strong players in here. I was excited at first becuse thought this going to be an easy town win. But now I am seeing strong players can appear townie. I have no idea who I want to lynch today now.

I have trouble seeing a scum perspective in this post. He's really trying to evaluate Oberon in the face of all of the evidence before him instead of doubling down and using, say, Oberon's lack of defense to scumpaint him. A scumMike could really push for an Oberon train without looking suspicious, (believable tunnel vision and genuinely scummy things from Oberon) but he's not doing that here.

The paranoia also seems REALLY towny. It's my level of paranoia about Helz right now, tbh. If Mike is scum, he would KNOW if Helz is Mafia/Not Mafia, and it would be very hard to fake the correct level of doubt.

Mike might be my top town pick atm. (Helz and MM are up there too, but I expect them to be much more capable of faking something like this, whereas Mike would have to come up with it genuinely) I'll admit I may be underestimating Mike's ability to fake a town perspective, but he really looks genuine right now.

[MattZed]

@Auwt , when would you replace Dark Magician if he doesn't post?

[Frinckles]

vroom vroom I'm ready to do this

[Mesk514]

I honestly haven't slept in the last...uh, 28 hours now, and I have to get through the day so my presence may be very limited. Hopefully by the time I've gotten some sleep there will be tons more content for me to look over, which I have no doubt... as, well, MattZed is here.

I'll be here definitely for a good 12 hours before EoD.
just a heads up

[Mike]

@FrostByte
@Frinckles
@Dark Magician
@Mesk514

are people I would like to hear more from.
Mesk514 want to hear more from later get some sleep. Drunk, Lake of sleep posts from players is useless. But I expect some posts after you get rest.
DM has not even posted yet. Not AI for DM.
Frinkckles and Frost I want to hear more than small posts here and there. Both players good players and can hide alignment with small posts.

To many people saying I am ok with lynch on this person or that person. Do you all not relize that only helps scum. Only 2 Mafia 1 Neutral. As long as they are not voted off or there Partner day 1 what insintive do they have contribute.

Town has a history of lynching town day 1. Lets Hit a Scum day 1 increase the odd of town wining. Neutral is alone. Mafia only have 2. Day 1 is towns top advantage. Forget mechanics and Read the player.

MM may have me top town read but From my experience. every time MM has been town He scum reads me day 1 every time MM is mafia he town reads me day 1. So him makeing me his top town day 1 Has me a bit put off.

Mattzedd had helz as top town when after I gave Helz as the only town read i had. Now he is saying I am his top town. with helz.

If MM and Matzedd is both with with me then this game is easy. But if one or more is MAfia or one Neutral one mafia. we screwed.

could be one town one scum (Neutral or Mafia).

My lean is more to the Mattzed Neutral and MM mafia. Mattzed I am not seeing anyone being his partner except me. I know I am not his partner. MM Just never town reads me as his top town Day 1. Never. But for his partner Frostbite because of frost vote on him to maybe distance????

@everyone Thoughts, Views??? My Mind feels like it wants to explode.

[Mike]

-vote Marshmallow Marshall

Lets see where this goes.

[Frinckles]

-vote Helz

with intent to lynch.
top scumread and top townread from everyone, NOW.

I townread you. I like the energy. Mesk too. Still reading.

[MattZed]

Town has a history of lynching town day 1. Lets Hit a Scum day 1 increase the odd of town wining. Neutral is alone. Mafia only have 2. Day 1 is towns top advantage. Forget mechanics and Read the player.

Mike again showing his bleeding town colors, I love it.

I agree that the low number of posts is NAI right now.

On some specific players:

I'd encourage you to read MM for a reason *other* than him townreading you. Take a look back at his posts and see if you read a town or a scum perspective in them. I'm getting more and more serious about the towncore of you+me+Helz+MM+Mesk.

You haven't said anything about Oberon. I'd suggest you actually re-engage your tunnel for a bit. He's the person you've thought the most about, and if you think about him some more you might get a read one way or the other, and this will make the rest of the game make more sense to you. Tbh, his behavior is largely NAI to me right now, but you might pick up on something subtle that I haven't.

[MattZed]

Tbh, I think it's about time to get serious trains started. We don't want a TPR to claim with 2 hours left in day and have to swap to someone who's AFK.

-vote Frinckles

I'm going to need to see a pretty compelling reads list soon.

[Auwt]

@Auwt , when would you replace Dark Magician if he doesn't post?

I'm giving a day. No response from him yet.

[FrostByte]

Town is in a tough spot. The first 2 pages (50ppp) are shitposting. We have 3 pages worth of potentially actionable info and people are asking for full, in-depth reads.

Oof.

[MattZed]

Town is in a tough spot. The first 2 pages (50ppp) are shitposting. We have 3 pages worth of potentially actionable info and people are asking for full, in-depth reads.

Oof.

I'm not asking for IN-DEPTH reads. I'm just asking for how Frinckles is reading people right now. If there's a lot of null, there's a lot of null. But it's valuable information: town know how much uncertainty they have about everyone and should honestly express that. Scum know who's scum and who isn't, and thus have to lie about how confident they are.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Town is in a tough spot. The first 2 pages (50ppp) are shitposting. We have 3 pages worth of potentially actionable info and people are asking for full, in-depth reads.

Oof.

I've seen much worse than that. This is actually a pretty good start, minus the part where a third of the players don't really get involved...
And you're part of that third, which makes this post quite awkward
Any reads?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

You're missing the case Mike is making: He started scumreading you because you opted out of random voting. The wagonomics is something he considered later, and even Mike was publicly questioning it.

If you're town, explain why you didn't vote for someone actually in the game.

You're making it look like not wanting to "defend" yourself from not having RVSed because it's useless (and it absolutely is useless) is scummy. It's not. And notice the wording: "making it look like". You're not stating it, just implying it.

By your *memory*?!

For the love of all that is holy, YOU CAN SEE HOW MANY POSTS EVERYONE MADE.

Now I'm getting last game flashbacks...

Here, you're suggesting Helz is scum because he talked about "his memory" on the topic of active and inactive players.

Would that be a trend?
By the way, I've seen nothing that strikes me as particularly towny from Mattzed. Keeping an eye on him. Not saying I prefer him over an inactive for today's lynch, though.