S-FM 304: Instant Mafia

[secondpassing]

For reference to everyone:



The more I think about it the more I think the MM SP theory isn't so farfetched.

wait wow he did it twice

[Stealthbomber16]

You are correct I might sound intimidating here but it is in no way aimed towards the town.


I find both SB16 and MM equally scum.

I still find it hard to believe SB16 is solo mason.

SB16 could be taking a huge risk here to save MM.

Reverse psychology.


I am expecting SB16 to flip his vote anytime as soon as MM brings his "defense".



I believe in SB16/MM duo more than anything.


What do you think?

Alright, I'll bite.

Why do you have a hard time believing I'm a solo mason? This is not the first time it's happened in this setup. I remember one game the host said "it was almost a necessity".

You are right to be skeptical that I could be "saving" MM. My vote will likely not be moving from MM for the rest of the day though. To me, this is not only the best statistical chance of being scum objectively (66% between the 3 untied citizens), but also has the best chance of being scum based on my reads as well. His ties to Zedus (or rather complete lack thereof) cannot be ignored. Ganelon is a bit of a harder sell for a scum team, I agree, but Ganelon is the type of player who would totally bus his scummate like this. I don't currently think Ganelon is the second scum but I understand I have no credibility there considering I have flip-flopped on him all game.

[Stealthbomber16]

I mean I don't see Varcron's push as scummy because as scum the objectively correct move from his point of view is to just mislynch MM and call it a day lol. It makes no sense from a scum motivated position.

I also don't think his point makes sense in general though so what do I know

[Stealthbomber16]

AMA boys

[Stealthbomber16]

wtf ganelon has 80 posts

[secondpassing]

wtf ganelon has 80 posts

is that good

okay question

why did you not claim citizen

[Stealthbomber16]

is that good

okay question

why did you not claim citizen

Because I'm not citizen

[Stealthbomber16]

Because I'm not citizen

Follow-up question
why would I claim citizen

[secondpassing]

I dunno how SP reads you and Gane as scum, and I definitely do not know how he reads me as town but Auwt as lynchable scum



If you believed me then by definition you confirm Auwt as town, which you didn't do later that post. That's either a silly town mistake or a blundering scum mistake, take your pick.

Oringally Posted by secondpassing
gan bake mm zedus auwt stealth we should lynch in

This is a flop if I've ever seen one, one that looks like scum to me. Re read #321 if you are curious where the quote is from.

you cant click a link to see the post
because he hides it

we have two sheriff i dont like varcron
but since setup would be massively scum sided
i need to believe him

in my eyes its
gan bake mm zedus auwt stealth we should lynch in

i cross off bake and stealth and auwt
they either confirmed or are very town

i think its gan mm
delayed roleclaim probably since we managed to suprise

then varcron spends a whole day discrediting me
when he quote post
leaves out my conclusion
makes me very angry
but no
im calm its a game
varcron is scum

[secondpassing]

Follow-up question
why would I claim citizen

you could have made the same trap
you say you are a tpr
but then say you are making a trap
claim citizen
does the same thing

when you claim mason with no partner
we wonder is this fake
you claim citizen no one else would know

i want to trust you
i expected a mayor
but maybe you were making tpr crazys
just conspiracy theory seeing aliens

pay me no mind
i think you are town

[secondpassing]

AMA boys

maybe now your turn?

[bakermir]

Well and you know that by saying this, you will most likely lock SB16's vote on MM. Smart.
My possible teams are currently (from more to less probable).

Ganelon/SB (would be obvious looking at votes?)
MM/SB (SB trying to distance himself by voting MM?)
MM/Ganelon (Firing at each other?)
Varcron/MM (in another world lol? If thats the case Varcron is incredible)

I just dont feel like Zedus is invovled in a scum team, he would be ready to vote MM, pressured a Ganelon (iirc?), and is currently voting SB16.
Zedus is playing right honestly, I trust more the Sheriffs-Citizens duos, and so does he apparently, and I have to give him credits for that.

I confirm bakermir and secondpassing having a similar mind set than the one I have.
Varcron is confirming me, but at the same time covering MM more than the two others.

This is what I am afraid. I only see Zedus from the beginning the guy that tried to position himself in that untouchable spot and subtly lead the town.

I don't see MM lynch happening without a vote from Zedus or Varcron and both of them have their focus set on elsewhere. Especially Varcron believes MM is town. This lynch won't happen if the town core doesn't move together.

I still believe the safest lynch here is MM yet I don't want to put him on risk. I believe you feel the same. This is the reason why I believe SB16 could be making a risky play to save his scum mate.

This is the perfect timing.


As for possible duo's, I need more time to think. As it stands, I will go with what SB16 suggested. We only need one scum. What do you think of his suggestion?

[Auwt]

you cant click a link to see the post
because he hides it




then varcron spends a whole day discrediting me
when he quote post
leaves out my conclusion
makes me very angry
but no
im calm its a game
varcron is scum

To clarify secondpassing is "crossing off bakermir, stealth and auwt [from lynch list]", but for some reason Varcron have just cut the post before the moment SP said so.

Is it a reading mistake from Varcron or an intentional push toward secondpassing? I will let Varcron answer then.
If Varcron admits it being a mistake, then maybe we shall go forward to see what's up with MM/Ganelon/SB?

[Varcron]

you cant click a link to see the post
because he hides it




then varcron spends a whole day discrediting me
when he quote post
leaves out my conclusion
makes me very angry
but no
im calm its a game
varcron is scum

I didn't make a link to see the post in the first place nor did I intend to.

In regards to leaving out the conclusion, why would that middle part be in there if you did not mean it somehow? Doesn't make sense to me, but then again I'm GOOFY!

Oh also MM you fell into my trap card

-vote Marshmallow Marshall

LOL that looks like a perspective slip to me. A real sheriff wouldn't make that mistake... at least I think so? I especially wouldn't expect that from Secondpassing.

I just noticed this, you clearly didn't try to correct me now that I'm proven illiterate since you just want a lynch.

[secondpassing]

This is what I am afraid. I only see Zedus from the beginning the guy that tried to position himself in that untouchable spot and subtly lead the town.

I don't see MM lynch happening without a vote from Zedus or Varcron and both of them have their focus set on elsewhere. Especially Varcron believes MM is town. This lynch won't happen if the town core doesn't move together.

I still believe the safest lynch here is MM yet I don't want to put him on risk. I believe you feel the same. This is the reason why I believe SB16 could be making a risky play to save his scum mate.

This is the perfect timing.

As for possible duo's, I need more time to think. As it stands, I will go with what SB16 suggested. We only need one scum. What do you think of his suggestion?

this is very good i have seen blindness by zedus
yes he makes himself untouchable
not too sure on mm atm
i had him paired with ganelon but ganelon pushes back
seems very earnest

varcron also pushes a misquote of mine
right after mm throws a vote at me
then continues on the entire day
i thought maybe its selective vision

but then he quotes it like three times
not selective vision
selective manipulation
cant let edoua get away with that

varcron could be paired with sb16 unlikely
could be paired with mm possible
could be paired with zedus

i was getting citizen vibes from auwt before his reveal
he revealed after me see two tpr in sb16 and me
makes a lot of sense on his gamble

most confident on varcron rn
i will consider your suggestion

[Varcron]

To clarify secondpassing is "crossing off bakermir, stealth and auwt [from lynch list]", but for some reason Varcron have just cut the post before the moment SP said so.

Is it a reading mistake from Varcron or an intentional push toward secondpassing? I will let Varcron answer then.
If Varcron admits it being a mistake, then maybe we shall go forward to see what's up with MM/Ganelon/SB?

My vote will remain on MM, see post #339 from him and #336 from me

[secondpassing]

To clarify secondpassing is "crossing off bakermir, stealth and auwt [from lynch list]", but for some reason Varcron have just cut the post before the moment SP said so.

Is it a reading mistake from Varcron or an intentional push toward secondpassing? I will let Varcron answer then.
If Varcron admits it being a mistake, then maybe we shall go forward to see what's up with MM/Ganelon/SB?

exactly i have very clearly made known auwt is town
auwt makes the towniest posts
so logical agree with most everything
he did setup spec and came to the same conclusion i have

only bakermir and myself are townier

[bakermir]

-vote Marshmallow Marshall

[secondpassing]

-vote Marshmallow Marshall

[The Godfather]

Marshmallow Marshall has been lynched! Stand by for the host's review and day-end post!


Marshmallow Marshall (5 [L-0]): Ganelon, Varcron, bakermir, Stealthbomber16, secondpassing
Stealthbomber16 (1 [L-4]): Zedus
Ganelon (1 [L-4]): Marshmallow Marshall

[naz]

marshmallow marshall has been lynched : ( he was citizen
gg, mafia (@secondpassing + @bakermir ) wins!


roles:
1. Marshmallow Marshall - citizen
2. bakermir - mafia
3. Auwt - citizen
4. Ganelon - citizen
5. Varcron - sheriff w/green check on auwt
6. Zedus - citizen
7. Stealthbomber16 - solo mason
8. secondpassing - mafia


i don't really have host notes rn i was not expecting this...but i should have lol

[secondpassing]

get rekt

[secondpassing]

jk gg wp
gj bakey
thanks nazzy enjoyed the setup
zedus made great posts

[Unknown1234]

Town still has a day left..

[secondpassing]

Town still has a day left..

you gave me a heart attack

[Unknown1234]

you gave me a heart attack

Oh sorry

I was just emphasizing that town still had over a day left to formulate reads in a setup that is only 3 days long.

[bakermir]

marshmallow marshall has been lynched : ( he was citizen
gg, mafia (@secondpassing + @bakermir ) wins!


roles:
1. Marshmallow Marshall - citizen
2. bakermir - mafia
3. Auwt - citizen
4. Ganelon - citizen
5. Varcron - sheriff w/green check on auwt
6. Zedus - citizen
7. Stealthbomber16 - solo mason
8. secondpassing - mafia


i don't really have host notes rn i was not expecting this...but i should have lol

hey so..

how do you make the burgers?

thanks for taking your time and hosting the game.


i enjoyed it a lot. i might have been arrogant during the game i hope no one takes it personal. it was part of roleplay.


cheers secondpassing



i think town were quite close at times solving this game

gg everyone



P.S GOOOOFYYYYYYY VELCROOOO

[secondpassing]

Oh sorry

I was just emphasizing that town still had over a day left to formulate reads in a setup that is only 3 days long.

You're right.

It's okay I still like you.

[Stealthbomber16]

Eh, I'm a stubborn pig. I don't think I would've figured it out.

[naz]

hey so..

how do you make the burgers?

thanks for taking your time and hosting the game.

burgers are my lil secret (they're not on the forum i outsource them)


thanks for playin!

[naz]

Anyway @Zedus here is the last time this setup was run. I’m finding it FOR YOU. All you have to do now is skim the thread.

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...fia-blinkstyle!
I was scum, my partner was lynched and I lost

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...stant-Mafia-IV
I was town, there were two conflicting mason teams and town lost after an excruciating 72 hours

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...-Instant-Mafia
I wasn’t even in this game, but here it is!

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...=Instant+Mafia
This game ended in a mafia victory 24 hours into the game.

@Stealthbomber16 im so sad u didnt post LITERALLY the last time this game was posted - when i hosted it - in WHICH U PLAYED LOL https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...-Instant-Mafia

you won by lynching the solo mason (distorted)

[naz]

Now my scumlist

1. Marshmallow Marshall - scum probably. He have like no game presence. Another probably scum, Ganelon, voted him most likely for avert suspicion.
2. bakermir - strong citizen. I see no reason for mafia to reveal sheriff+cit pair so early. It's weak strat then you have great pool of unclaimed roles, it's bad idea to show connection between you. Bakermir believe in "reading", but I know he is good player. How can good player accept this weak and risky strat in mafia chat? No, i think, he is real citizen.
3. Auwt - weak scum pair with Varcron. Why not neutral? Because Auwt is realy VERY good as town player, but not so good as evil (according to mod experience and previous game). I see no good town plays from him, just some obvious info. Also late revealing is more scumlike then townlike. This is realy weak "reading" lol. But I can't just buy this sheriff+cit confirmation.
4. Ganelon - strong scum. Random voting. Ignoring questions. Shittalking. Anti-town plays. The only reason I still afraid of missleading for him "how can evil act so obvious, it's impossible". Linked with Stealthbomber16 (unreasonable votes on me) and with Marshmallow (voted him in the first post, more likely just to cancel the vote later and "remove" linking opportunity)
5. Varcron - weak scum pair with Auwt. Well, this based mostly on Auwt's plays, not on Varcron's. Still plan B for me, but this can be good mafia play.
6. Zedus - 100% town, because I know it. I am glad I have no any links with another players. No any sheriff or "sheriff" confirming me and so on.
7. Stealthbomber16 - scum probably. Shittalking a lot, no constructive, this GF claim, weak mason claim after. Well, I have one point to his good alignment: maybe he waited for double masons claim from mafia to cc them, that's why he act this way. But I see only one link with him - Ganelon (focused votes, that realy doesn't matter on me or on someone else). That's why I prefer to press Ganelon.
8. secondpassing - most likely sheriff. Well, I have to trust someone, and I trust that "weakest mafia play" is just a correct town play. If this guys are mafia, they deserved win, lol.

Well, now I will dream about plot twist like Marshmallow comes and reveals as mayor.
To be honest, game is ending here, after Marshmallow Marshall will call his role. After that it's all about trust Auwt+Varcron or not. And I see no reason to play for 2 days, we will have all info, and nothing new will happens. We will have no more info, it's over. That's why I think this setup is strange.

I did everything I can. My vote still on Ganelon, because he have connections with 2 scums from my scumlist. And I see no way for new info appears in this game, except Marshmallow Marshall mayor revealing, lol.

But realy main thing you should never forget: if you think someone is scum, first think about who is his ally. Because he has ally. And this is over 9000% true then all of your "readings". Mechanics works, reading - not.

also this reads list made me laugh - outside of himself, only mafia was town

[Stealthbomber16]

@Stealthbomber16 im so sad u didnt post LITERALLY the last time this game was posted - when i hosted it - in WHICH U PLAYED LOL https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...-Instant-Mafia

you won by lynching the solo mason (distorted)

I searched for Instant mafia and didnt find that one

I dont remember half of the games I play here, much less half of the one day long ones

[Varcron]

I should have followed my gut

I apologize to the town for an impulsive vote without checking on MMs vote count.

[Varcron]

Smh smelled scum and followed my brain over my nose

[bakermir]

also this reads list made me laugh - outside of himself, only mafia was town

this weak strat was literally my idea. fast claim, reverse uno.

He was literally reading our minds except it was other way around and I find it hilarious.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

-vote Bakermir

for MVP. Congratulations! Although I was probably right about your fencesitting post (was I?), you managed to convince everyone that you were towny and that I was crazy lol. GG WP.

But uh Mag, what the hell was that push xD

[Renegade]

also this reads list made me laugh - outside of himself, only mafia was town

Well that is how they play in Russia... Mafia is town and town is mafia.

You know Mafia came from Rusia right??

[BananaCucho]

This is over already? Aw man. At Bear Lake and fell behind, RIP

[Renegade]

This is over already? Aw man. At Bear Lake and fell behind, RIP

Yeah Vacorn put MM at L-2 and mafia hammered. GOOFY

[Varcron]

-vote Bakermir

for MVP. Congratulations! Although I was probably right about your fencesitting post (was I?), you managed to convince everyone that you were towny and that I was crazy lol. GG WP.

But uh Mag, what the hell was that push xD

I honestly thought the team was you/SP and I voted you over SP thinking that no one would hammer.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

also this reads list made me laugh - outside of himself, only mafia was town

Lol. I think Zedus may or may not have had too much confidence in his reading strategy here. The good part about it is that it was more or less the reason why people townread him.
@Ganelon since when do you call random people "confirmed scum" when they're not confirmed scum xD

[Stealthbomber16]

At least my groupings were correct!

[Marshmallow Marshall]

At least my groupings were correct!

I think you played a pretty good game. And you were solo mason, so any sins you may have committed are instantly forgiven lol.

[bakermir]

-vote Bakermir

for MVP. Congratulations! Although I was probably right about your fencesitting post (was I?), you managed to convince everyone that you were towny and that I was crazy lol. GG WP.

But uh Mag, what the hell was that push xD

you too man.

you were right with the fencesitting read. also I was honest with my response. i would be fencesitting pre-reveal stage and post-reveal if i am confirmed by a sheriff i would continue doing it. i don't see problem with this from citizen pov and I was ready to argue with you till forever. well at least that was the strategy. i wanted to throw myself out there in the arena. you jumped in. you and varcron were the two people i wanted to avoid but varcron reveal and you showing balls pretty much made it clear to me that you two are the biggest threats for mafia wincon.

I suppose i am wrong in this approach in a regular game, right? I sensed that anything that happened pre-claim stage carried no weight in the end. i was comparing this game to a regular game with multiple nights and tried to scale it down to this one-shot setup. so Day 1 reads in a regular game would have less importance compared to Day 2 = reads pre-claim meant shit compared to reads post-claim stage.

well it worked in this case. maybe once in a million game.

i would be glad to hear your opinion in all of this. also for future study, i would like to hear from you and other vets how a citizen should play pre-claim / day 1 stage. even though I recently started following games, there is a lot to soak.

[naz]

https://discord.gg/RJN3ZGB

[Marshmallow Marshall]

you too man.

you were right with the fencesitting read. also I was honest with my response. i would be fencesitting pre-reveal stage and post-reveal if i am confirmed by a sheriff i would continue doing it. i don't see problem with this from citizen pov and I was ready to argue with you till forever. well at least that was the strategy. i wanted to throw myself out there in the arena. you jumped in. you and varcron were the two people i wanted to avoid but varcron reveal and you showing balls pretty much made it clear to me that you two are the biggest threats for mafia wincon.

I suppose i am wrong in this approach in a regular game, right? I sensed that anything that happened pre-claim stage carried no weight in the end. i was comparing this game to a regular game with multiple nights and tried to scale it down to this one-shot setup. so Day 1 reads in a regular game would have less importance compared to Day 2 = reads pre-claim meant shit compared to reads post-claim stage.

well it worked in this case. maybe once in a million game.

i would be glad to hear your opinion in all of this. also for future study, i would like to hear from you and other vets how a citizen should play pre-claim / day 1 stage. even though I recently started following games, there is a lot to soak.

In a normal game, you'd probably just nightkill us if you can't bring us down in day chat, even disregarding the sheriff claim from Varcron. You'd probably have lynched me and killed Varcron, and then powerwolfed your way to victory. That being said, I'm known for being a trash scum, so perhaps you should take this with a grain of salt lol.

As for "how a citizen should play", there are many styles. One I personally like is to pressure people from the start of the day and to maintain the pressure to get as much information out as possible. You can find your own way, though: some people prefer a more passive approach in the early days, others prefer to dig deep into mechanics, and some even do really weird things to see the other players' reactions.

[Varcron]

In a normal game, you'd probably just nightkill us if you can't bring us down in day chat, even disregarding the sheriff claim from Varcron. You'd probably have lynched me and killed Varcron, and then powerwolfed your way to victory. That being said, I'm known for being a trash scum, so perhaps you should take this with a grain of salt lol.

As for "how a citizen should play", there are many styles. One I personally like is to pressure people from the start of the day and to maintain the pressure to get as much information out as possible. You can find your own way, though: some people prefer a more passive approach in the early days, others prefer to dig deep into mechanics, and some even do really weird things to see the other players' reactions.

Don't follow how I play citizen is another good rule of thumb, you'll get ganked D1

[Frinckles]

Oh btw @Frinckles I’m trying new this game

[Ganelon]

cunts, I was busy, you hammered while I was at work