Meta

[Damus_Graves]

Meta is a tool best used for anticipating night actions. Meta is a tool that is wasted on scum hunting.
Change my mind

[Slaol]

Meta is a tool best used for anticipating night actions. Meta is a tool that is wasted on scum hunting.
Change my mind

No

[Damus_Graves]

No

Good argument

[Slaol]

Good argument

I agree.

Though id say meta can play a minimal part in scum hunting, used to help confirm reads based on trend. However meta is mostly a trend thing, and thus cant be relevant in game as it is actively changing the trend

[Light_Yagami]

I Dont Use Meta Dont Even Know How Ta Read It.. Or Understand It..

[creedkingsx]

I think Lucian is really strong in this meta right now.

[Cryptonic]

Yup, meta sucks. It should only really be used in a "fool-me-once..." sort of way.
Because of meta, I can never trust Kenny again (or at least until I forget).

[Slaol]

Yup, meta sucks. It should only really be used in a "fool-me-once..." sort of way.
Because of meta, I can never trust Kenny again (or at least until I forget).

This is the trend im meaning.

This exact example is me to Mike courtesy of turnabout. Fucker will NEVER be confirmed town to me. He can be revealed mayor in a setup without a possible scum mayor and hell get some looks

[rumox]

This is the trend im meaning.

This exact example is me to Mike courtesy of turnabout. Fucker will NEVER be confirmed town to me. He can be revealed mayor in a setup without a possible scum mayor and hell get some looks

There is a meta forming right now between you two and actions in game may give away your alignment. Depends on how you use it in game

[Light_Yagami]

So Can Anyone Help Me Understand What Meta Is And How To Read It? It Would Help Me In Forum Games Maybe..

[Cryptonic]

So Can Anyone Help Me Understand What Meta Is And How To Read It? It Would Help Me In Forum Games Maybe..

It's just patterns you notice about players.
Let's say you've played 7 games with Player X. In 5 of those games, Player X was very quiet. Then out of these 5 games, he was Citizen 4 times.
Because of this, this might lead you to believe that if he is silent, Player X has a high chance of being Citizen.

But the problem is that people understand their own meta and can play into it, ultimately fucking you over.

That's why you should just pretend you're a Citizen in every single game you play. It's always advantageous.

[Light_Yagami]

What If A Player Really Doest Understand Their Own Meta Such As My Self.. If I Even Have One..

[Cryptonic]

What If A Player Really Doest Understand Their Own Meta Such As My Self.. If I Even Have One..

IDK, I haven't seen you play much. Maybe someone else can kill you in on your meta.
How often are you scum? It's basically seeing the difference in a player between Power Role vs Citizen, and Scum vs Town.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Meta is useful for scum hunting in some particular tells, but never as the sole basis of a case/read. If it's used as such, you need to think that your read might be 100% flawed. As crypt said it's a lot of "fool me once", and a way to get reads, too. I personally don't use meta as a way to predict night actions; thread analysis is often better for this purpose, and it's nearly always possible to do so.

[Cryptonic]

If you want to use Meta to scumhunt, use it as a spotlight. Use it to direct yourself to examine said player in more depth, and form a more accurate read; Maybe pressure said Player harder in an attempt to get them to slip, etc.

[Light_Yagami]

I Appreciate Your Input

[Voss]

There's no consensus on the definition of 'meta'.

[Damus_Graves]

This is simply not true

There's no consensus on the definition of 'meta'.

[Helz]

Meta is a tool best used for anticipating night actions. Meta is a tool that is wasted on scum hunting.
Change my mind

I dont like the question. Meta- In a basic way its ambiguous and touches on a bunch of areas while the question focus on two areas that are mutually exclusive.

Can it be used for night action analysis? Yes
Can it be used for scum hunting? Yes
Is it better used on either side? Subjective

Lets zero in. In a basic way meta hunting is identifying a players norm and drawing conclusions from what you perceive as deviations from their norm. This is a consistent factor weather you are looking to anticipate their actions or their alignment. The major factor to take into account is bias which meta hunting is more prone to than any other method of analysis (in my experience.)

When done right on a basic level scum hunting or action analysis is built upon an axiomatic system of reasoning that draws back to basic and identifiable differences between the motives/information of the town and non-town. When done wrong its based upon decisions which can not be explained by the person making those decisions past vague conjectures.

My personal belief is that any true read can fit this format:

"I believe playerX is alignmentX because of patternX."
"PatternX is indicative of alignmentX because of (Fundimental difference between town and scum)"

Sadly 95% of 'Meta reads" are cop-outs that dodge and avoid this process while falling prey to massive amounts of bias. It has value for sure but is the tool of choice for the armature player for a reason.

[NoctiZ]

I feel like on this site with the current player base the meta argument is mostly made either because people are too lazy to analyze posts or they simply don't know how. It's easier to use "X is Y because of my meta read" than to actually explain how this person is town or scum in the current game. For me that's the reason meta is thrown around a lot on here. And to be honest sometimes I use the same argument because it's easier to get along when you fit in rather than stick out like a nail.

[Damus_Graves]

Meta¹ is the term we use for knowledge of how a player will act according to their past experiences in the game. That is the overall most widely accepted definition of the word. It's use in games is absolutely flimsy and we need to improve the way we incorporate it into our styles. As an example; many of you have called out that I have a tendency to buddy one town player as scum, scum paint one townie and lynch him/her and ride the middle ground to victory. You would argue that

Damus is my top scum read because of his attempts at buddying Slaol {insert quotes here as references/examples}, his discrediting of Mike {More quotes that support your statement} and the fact that he hasn't taken a solid stance against any one player within these last few days. These tactics have more beneficial consequences for a scum Damus than a town Damus because it allows him to support any lynch without putting himself in the limelight for the flip and considering that it is day two/three/four the only reason a town Damus would buddy Slaol is through a sheriff check where he discovered slaol was 100% town. This is clearly not the case because Damus has not claimed Sheriff/Damus has spread suspicion on most other players but Slaol. This falls in line with Damus' previous games such as Turnabout and LBP where he utilized the same tactics.

Once a player is aware of his or her own meta it is significantly harder to read them from a solely meta standpoint. It becomes more beneficial to read that players actions than any behavioral tells. See the above example. I would gladly follow the above statement as a pressure/lynch train, especially when compared to the commonly used

Marshall will always town read me when he is town.

I can always tell if Mike is scum or not and this game he is not playing his scummeta.

Damus is scum because Damus reasons