Everybody is equally weak on the inside, just that some present their ruins as new castles and become kings –
Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before.
If your dear heart is wounded, my wild heart bleeds with yours.
Well played mike. I was extremely close to changing my vote to you during the day Voss was trialed because i wanted to punish you for talking about lynching me.
I was totally ready to abandon my mission to lynch Voss just to screw everyone that wanted to lynch me over.
That nickname better be fucking glorious @Mike
:P
Everybody is equally weak on the inside, just that some present their ruins as new castles and become kings –
Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before.
If your dear heart is wounded, my wild heart bleeds with yours.
MMM maybe next game i can surivive pasy night 1 and we can see more tomfoolery from Damus
Side note can yall believe the amount of posting that happened this game
yeah we are almost on 4000 posts now
I had bomb when I put it out as a suggestion. that is why I didn't want you to be voted d3 no more bombs. but I had to keep looking like town. So used Mag tunneling on Voss as cover to switch my votes from Voss on bottom to Voss on top. When I so town read him. Major Scum move on my part but was counting on claiming it on Mag as i did Last day.
Do Not open this spoiler under any condition!!!!!!!
Spoiler : :
I cannot believe MM was town. .1
Kenny should've been lynched. .2
Mike, please stop the spam. It's quite annoying. It got you townread in the end but please stop it, it's extremely annoying when someone tunnels on you.
btw @Marshmallow Marshall If I ever need a defense attorney...I am not hiring you xD lol that was so funny to watch
So assessment of players ive met this game. @Mike this is a very good neutral evil @Distorted this is a very good player in general @Marshmallow Marshall this is not a good town without information. Better with a power role or general info im sure @Damus_Graves lol this fucking scrub @Magoroth this is a good town leader @Light_Yagami this player needs to take things more srz but has ability @Kenny this is frankly an obvious scum who just happened to evade lynch by being slightly less lynchable. Good on that defense i guess but could be better. @blinkskater this is a good town @Stealthbomber16 this guy needs better timing of course @Slaol this guy needs to improve at hunting neutrals as his skillset is full on interaction assessment
Only down side to this play I made will not work again. So I have to come up with a new style. So be warned now Meta will not work on me as I like to play different each game. I did use some of the same I did in Chicago. @Magoroth Great Job pointing out my scum Meta from Chicago. also at Light calling me out as bomber.
Do Not open this spoiler under any condition!!!!!!!
Spoiler : :
Since all of you wanted to help me with Lessons. Let me Give one Never Bet me because I never lose a bet. Distorted has learned that lol. Sorry distorted I have to admit that jury chat was so much fun. I can't believe Mag never read it it was basicly a Scum chat not jury chat. MaG never read it just voted I was Laughing so hard.
Do Not open this spoiler under any condition!!!!!!!
Spoiler : :
lol i started to think u were 'slow' in the chat... I figured u sounded good in the first FM maybe because u had more time to post in forum posts, so maybe u took ur time with them? then......rekt
but yeah, that chat was literally a scumchat with all the details of the game in it lol
Well, with the Executioner being anti-town... Uhm.... yeah. This setup just needs less court interruptions, and maybe one more citizen, but it was very very fun.
Also, a shoutout to @Damus_Graves who has created a very big effect from quite small plays on D1. Good job. I am still quite shocked that the only one in this game who didn't think that I would be horribly trash as Damus' scummate was... Damus' scummate lol.
I will never ever ever ever let go of someone being inconsistent again.
Good job Mike, but that will only ever work once with me in the game again.
FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
FM XXI: USA (Escort)
FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)
Another thing I've learnt: When there is a confirmed role everyone will be a fucking doll and just follow his judgement.
Thank you Anonymous Donor
yeah, I never read it. I didn't have time to read it, but even if I had, not much wold've changed. I was the only town in the jury lmao
You monster didn't mention the cat empress. You're no longer honorable.
but I agree with this list
Also, I just noticed something. Magoroth could have been Bomber, since associations didn't clear him. He was following his town meta, though, but I could've got fooled there.
anyway: things as I see them. @Mike you're a good neutral. if that's the kind of play style you want to pull off, remember that whenever you're town, it'll become obvious as hell cuz you won't be flip-flopping and spamming then lol. so you got two options: either you improve your scum game, or you worsen your town game. I'd go with the former. Your reads are good, and your reasoning skills are very good, you just need to work on a few things:
a) post count
b) "stream of consciousness"; your reads violently wobble from one person to another. you need to either plan your game thoroughly beforehand, and you should primarily be interested in telling the truth, even as scum, because that makes people townread you hard. this isn't to say you should throw or anything like that, just that you should act more like a townie should, push lynches, and try to use the information you have as an advantage (i.e., the info that you're scum), without having it show.
c) tunneling. try to listen more to people.
@Distorted nicely played. nothing much else I can say here, except maybe you shouldn't have inno'd Damus. other than that, very good play there.
@Marshmallow Marshall
a) Stop caring so much about how people see you (scum/town). it's important, but not to the extent where you should be posting solely so that you don't get scumread. just act naturally.
b) Please use fewer meta-reads. I know you love them, but I seriously don't think they're viable, especially not for very good players. they're also dependent on knowing a fuckton of things, such as the. relationship between two players, a player's personality, attitude, and personal/social situation, as well as posting style, affective background, etc etc. it's a lot, too much, I'd say, to account for.
@Gyrlander
a)We both need to stop being so passive. I'm not always passive, but I was this game.
b)When people call you out for being passive, it doesn't necessarily make them scum. it just makes them displeased at your play style.
@Numbertwo
a) Nice play and good strategy. Perfect sense, pretty much forced us into voting Voss at the end game. well-played.
I will always believe that meta reads are the strongest reads you can get in Mafia. There is no better read than something that comes directly from their personality. Yes, people can "cover" them; not many, but some can. but in the end, they will surface under the right amount of pressure. Just like how humanity covers up a lot of our animalistic instincts by creating a society with "higher standards". Put even the most 'proper' of people in the right situation, under the right stress/pressure, and their deeper, hereditary instincts will come out. I think thats the same with Mafia meta. A good way is to look past wording. look at the intention of the words. If they post 2 paragraphs, what is the purpose of each paragraph? main points? whats the drive of it? remove all the fluff wording and 'syntax' (this is going to become a new word here rofl), and look at the motivation behind them.
You are correct though that it does take knowing the person. You wont be having real meta reads after 1-2 games with someone. Meta works more for us right now as well because we have known eachother in the discord so long and on sc2maf. we have literally played hundreds of games together.
if u dont believe me, go join a game on MU where u know NOBODY. start trying to pressure someone. first things ur going to do is start asking questions about their playstyle =P u start fishing for their meta. if you see someone acting weird, u are going to ask "is this how they usually play?". just like efe/yagami. if u used traditional mafia methods of "if its scummy its mafia" then they would get lynched every game. It's meta that keeps us from that.
Last edited by Distorted; November 27th, 2018 at 01:19 PM.
'meta reading' so to speak, is also a good skill to have IRL ( u know what i mean). it is literally detecting patterns in people themself, rather than current mood, that is how i would compare mafia to. I see it as the deepest form of reading. If you get good at meta reads u can start forming strong meta on people u dont even know based on popular personality traits you notice from people.
no, the strongest reads are logical reads. they correlate 100% with alignment, always. if a player acts in the town's interests they are town. otherwise. they are not. @Distorted , you for instance did not act towny. you didn't scum hunt, and just pushed a bit at players. but. you. never actually offered anything of value. of course, that. doesn't. make you scum, but it definitely doesn't make you town either. I'll admit that logical reads in and of themselves are insufficient to construct perfect reads, instead composite reads are required. it's probably (nay, certain!) that if you combine several reading styles into your analysis, your reads will correlate somewhere close to 90-100% with alignment. I can't even quite explain what I'm talking about here very clearly, because it's so highly abstract...
yes, that's true, but you have to realize that fundamentally people always have a purpose in saying something. otherwise you'll just be a highly sophisticated artificial intelligence, pumping out results without understanding them. EVERYTHING someone says has a purpose, somehow, be it immediate, self-centered, aimed at someone else, or something else. it's not as if the brain is a blackbox and "personality traits" are the primary engine of everything. personality traits just determine your representation of things, which also determines what you aim for. and that's what you read.
I tried to prevent the town from skipping the day and putting us in a situation where the game is locked for scum pretty much. Entered a little late, so failed on it. I offered a LOT of legit reads to the town as well and helped progress the game and the town. If I wanted to be anti town i would have created false reads. Acting towny and giving info to town is simple, which is PRO TOWN. but I was scum. I actually did more scumhunting than half the town. u forget, i had a scum i needed to find also. ill repeat that, it is very easy to be pro town as scum. scum can actually be THE MOST pro town, because they know the facts.
Last edited by Distorted; November 27th, 2018 at 01:37 PM.
@Magoroth logical is not a type of reading style separate from things. logic applies to every situation. Meta reads is the persons style, unique to that individual. The other form of reading would be to just base what you see from the current game only, not taking into account past games. that means with every person u are just starting from scratch every time. that stops you from really developing in the game. meta is how you grow in mafia.
if you learn typical scum patterns from how scum act from playing 500 games, thats meta style reading. You are putting together patterns based off of past games to improve your current game.
You do the same thing with individual players for reading them. You take their playstyle, and compare the motive to how they usually play. if ur not using meta, why not lynch someone who is scumreading someone for coloring a text? that would come off horribly opportunistic to me if i didnt know kiras meta.
why do you think in sports they study eachothers playstyles? boxers study the person they are going to fight to learn their style. football teams study each others plays. poker players study each other hoping to find bluff-tells. Every single competitive game/sport does it. even E sports, in sc2 they watch each others replys before competitions to learn their styles. Those are the STRONGEST pieces of information that they can get on their opponent. Mafia is no different from that.
Last edited by Distorted; November 27th, 2018 at 01:44 PM.