Quite simply put in the title what would be attempted in these games.
***Clem has the credit for this idea***
Quite simply put in the title what would be attempted in these games.
***Clem has the credit for this idea***
suggetion for possible game:
https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...FM-Small-Round
To jump onto the idea but change a bit, instead why not have a tutorial?
The game needs.
Doctors
Lookouts
Mass Murderers
Framers
In some form. True WIFOM roles. The prediction of upcoming actions based on knowledge, not the 'defensive confusion shroud' most label it as.
It isn't about games being simple. It is about teaching them the skills that apply to non-training games.
You want to make simple games for new players? I like that idea (although, I think you posted this in the wrong section if this is what you're meaning). Although, I don't think we have enough new players on a regular basis to even fill a 7 player game that won't need any replacements.
Also, forget the tips and tricks thread. I hate the idea of cookie-cutter FM players.. Where is the fun? Also, you can't teach someone how to react in FM, because the chances of them being in the same situation, with the same setup, is like 0%.
The best way for people to learn to play FM is, quite simply, to play FM.
Study the setup and post as much as possible and you will do well for yourself.
Sounds like the perfect thing for a youtube "choose your own adventure" tutorial.
Yes, the best way to learn is to play. However, learning the pieces and common moves helps. Mafia is a lot like chess in that regard.
i agree that no 2 games are ever gonna be that same but they can get in similar situations
i agree though that best way is to play FMs. i think if we could make a game full of new players and have like 1 or 2 experinced it would work better.
if we have 6 expericed and 1 new or something like that the new player might end up being more confused.
that is also why we were thinking of having a crier/stump
or better yet have a experinced player simply tell host what they think, they wont know role list but they observe and then give out summary of day and possibly what they think
i will look into some setup i can think of to see if we can do something. maybe have a 2 of same game at same time
one with experinced players and one with new players and they go side by side
I agree with Cryptonic, Slaol moved the thread , and that this cannot subtract away from the learning that takes place in FMs. This is just to get new player's feet wet in FM overall.
Setup:
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
{Insert Evil Role Here that Cannot Kill}
To teach the basics of postings and activity and post analysis.
Sheriff
Doctor
Framer
Mafioso
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
To teach the basics of WIFOM and Analyzing night feedbacks, etc.
Things like this
So, basically, you just want to create simple setups that will be played by new players?
That first game you posted will be silent. You can't force these people to post in games. They just won't do it. New players need time to break out of their shell and join in with the chat, even if it's nothing game related. Making people socially comfortable is not something that can easily be done, nor taught. Also, new players need replacements more often then common players. Because of this, you'll need like 15 new players signing up for a game for 10 people or it will die.
These are just concerns, however, and not reason as to NOT do this. It is a good idea in theory, but just because we have 150 active members, doesn't mean shit. In the past 2 months, I've seen about 5 new MFM players. From those 5, probably 2 came back to the site after showing interest.
This also seems to be expecting people to have never played mafia before, which isn't the case. All members of this site either came from another FM site, or, obviously, SC2Mafia. In either case, they have a general understanding of the game and it's roles.
Anyways, move this to MFM parking damus x.x lol.
@Gerik, because it encourages everyone to think the same. everyplayer should just study the setups of SFMs and attempt to play them. It's 100% the best way to grow as a player. It's like reading a book about football in an attempt to get better at it. If you've never played Football before, reading a play book isn't going to make you any better at it.
Idea: each of these new player games has a dedicated veteran who will follow the game but not post in the thread. He/she does not know the roles list. New players are allowed to PM him/her for advice. I believe someone mentioned that creed did this in a recent game.
Alternatively, do what Mafiascum does: Each new player game has the same setup with only a variance in one or two roles. There is one 'superveteran' and two fairly experienced players per game. The rest are new players, mostly.
And if I die tomorrow, I'd be alright because I believe that after we're gone, the spirit carries on...
Spoiler : FM History :
that was my game of weapon maker where creed mentored prons4 for some things. i do like the idea of it as well but the host should be informed of it.
another suggestion: set up 2 exact games side by side one full of new players with maybe one or 2 experinced, and then a second game full of experinced players. the host will give out roles and each player of both sides will know who their match is (ie X is riff in one game and Y is riff in other they will know that each other is riff)
this way they can see how that player plpays as a riff and maybe incoriprate/learn how they play
That's a really good idea. Perhaps have the experienced game have its Day 1 before the newbie game starts, and the newbie Day 1 during the experienced Night 1 for the new players to see how their partners play during the day.
Claiming your partner would probably have to be illegal.
And if I die tomorrow, I'd be alright because I believe that after we're gone, the spirit carries on...
Spoiler : FM History :
good idea. i also agree the claiming of partner is restricted due to fact if one of them dies and diffrent dies they can figure out role lists. maybe if both partners die we could say something then
if bork would allow me i coult attempt to do something like this in the futrue
What I was thinking of avoiding:
Newbie game, day 3.
"Hey, I'm sheriff."
"Oh yeah, who's your partner in the Experienced Game?"
"creed"
Experienced game, night 4, mafia chat:
"Oh hey, looks like creed's sheriff. GG."
Or:
Newbie game, Day 3:
"I'm sheriff, creed is my partner."
Experienced game, Day 4:
creed flips scum.
GG.
And if I die tomorrow, I'd be alright because I believe that after we're gone, the spirit carries on...
Spoiler : FM History :
I summon the almight Borkbot to comment in this thread with his opinions on the subject matter.
These problems are exactly why I suggested a youtube choose your own adventure for a tutorial. I know it's not a flesh and blood "game" and loses some of the realism but it would be better for illustrating concepts in practice.
Honestly forum mafia isn't that hard, especially once you're able to obtain "meta" on everyone you play with. You obtain that by PLAYING. It's really the only way to get better.
i<3cryptonic
Meta is bad.
Meta has been good to em so far, Damus.
I agree with this. Some players may try to push the boundaries otherwise, saying more than they should. And it's really hard to monitor it.
Also, I think it's not feasible to make policies to host games specifically for new players. Because the established playerbase is way more huge than the influx. More than 3 new players in a game is a rarity.
Naturally, hosts are always free to choose the participants for their games. So if you want to give newbies priority on your signups list, by all means do so.
[FMVI: Angel FMVIII: Gunsmith FMIX: Peasant FMX: Blacksmith
MFM-I: Serial Killer MFM-II: Citizen MFM-III: Detective MFM-IV: Godfather/Witch MFM-V: Emperor MFM-VI:Host
SFM-I: Spy SFM-II: Bandit SFM-III: Host SFM-VI: Skeleton Knight
Awards: MFM-IV MVP SFM-VI MVP]
I want to bring this discussion back up. I did about 4 seconds of brainstorming for some setups of slightly increasing confusion.
Spoiler : Doctors :
Spoiler : Sheriffs :
Spoiler : Escorts :
Spoiler : Investigators :
Spoiler : Bus Drivers :
Spoiler : Clue :
Last edited by Slaol; May 22nd, 2013 at 07:55 PM.
Starter setups are fine. You're more than welcome to host them if you like.
But no outside communication with other people involved in the game.
[FMVI: Angel FMVIII: Gunsmith FMIX: Peasant FMX: Blacksmith
MFM-I: Serial Killer MFM-II: Citizen MFM-III: Detective MFM-IV: Godfather/Witch MFM-V: Emperor MFM-VI:Host
SFM-I: Spy SFM-II: Bandit SFM-III: Host SFM-VI: Skeleton Knight
Awards: MFM-IV MVP SFM-VI MVP]
1)
Mafioso
Consort
Sheriff
Doctor
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Consort can kill & block if alone.
2)
Mafioso
Mafioso
Sheriff
1-shot Vigilante
1-shot Vigilante
Citizen
Citizen
Vig can't shoot until n2.
3)
Mafioso
Mafioso
Sheriff
Doctor
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
4)
Mafioso
Consort
Sheriff
Doctor
Vigilante
Citizen
Citizen
Jester
Jester doesn't kill when lynched.